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In today’s post we call a time-out on pursuing our NORMALIZATION PROCESS™ theme at a higher level, we stop at one sub-set of human activity and drill down into the specific area. Today: ecclesiology. The specific issue that we will deal with in today’s post is the SSPX/Vatican “recognition” talks. We left off this subject matter in the post titled Desperately Seeking Reconciliation (see here). Please consider today’s post as a continuation of that post.
In this above named post, we left off with our analysis of an interview that Archbishop Pozzo gave to the German weekly Die Zeit. (see here) Today, we get a more detailed translation from Maike Hickson over at the OnePeterFive blog. (see here) In this OnePeterFive post, that I am re-publishing below, we acquire some more insights into Archbishop Pozzo’s position. With respect to the “recognition” talks with the SSPX and the basis of his argumentation, Archbishop Pozzo provides the MATERIAL FACTS, i.e. EVIDENCE of just what was agreed at the Second Vatican Council.
The reason that the EVIDENCE and argumentation is important is that we know that the NORMALIZATION PROCESS™ advances EXCLUSIVELY through OBJECTIVE CRITERIA.
If you don’t believe me, just think about this: After nuclear Armageddon that wipes out all human beings, 2+2 will still be equal to 4. Nuff said…
On an aside, to understand the nature of the problem that neo-modernists, leftists and other TRANSRATIONAL types have with OBJECTIVE CRITERIA, please refer to the post from the American Thinker blog titled The Scientific Method Is Racist. (see here) But I digress…
Back to the subject at hand. In the below post, the following have been identified as DATA POINTS that provide SIGNIFICANT new information into our knowledge of what in fact is the OBJECTIVE REALITY.
The following information is most relevant: (with emphasis and added emphasis)
When asked (Arch. Pozzo) by the journalist as to whether the Vatican has now come to the idea that the varied Council documents have different dogmatic weights, Pozzo very importantly states:
This is certainly not a [later] conclusion on our part, but it was already clear at the time of the Council. The General Secretary of the Council, Cardinal Pericle Felici, declared on 16 November 1964: “This holy synod defines only that as being binding for the Church what it declares explicitly to be such with regard to Faith and Morals.” Only those texts assessed by the Council Fathers as being binding are to be accepted as such. That has not been [later] invented by “the Vatican,” but it is written in the official files themselves.
and
In response to a possible critique that important Council declarations such as Nostra Aetate could thus be more fully and openly denied, Pozzo declares:
The secretary for the Unity of Christians said on 18 November 1964 in the Council Hall about Nostra Aetate: “As to the character of the declaration, the secretariat does not want to write a dogmatic declaration on non-Christian religions, but, rather, practical and pastoral norms.” Nostrae Aetate does not have any dogmatic authority, and thus one cannot demand from anyone to recognize this declaration as being dogmatic. This declaration can only be understood in the light of tradition and of the continuous Magisterium.
The reason that these two cited passages are of CRITICAL importance is that they provide bona fide MATERIAL and IRREFUTIBLE PROOF as to the INTENT of the council fathers at the time of the passage of those specific documents.
Given the above situation, the logical argument and refutation which initially set itself up as being of a symmetric nature, has now changed. Here is what I mean:
SINCE Arbp. Pozzo provided POSITIVE PROOFS for his THESIS on “Nostra Aetate, about interreligious dialogue; the decree Unitatis Redintegratio, on ecumenism; the Declaration Dignitatis Humanae, on religious liberty; and, finally, other texts relating to the question of the relationship between Christianity and Modernity”,
THEN any refutation provided by the neo-modernists must not only provide a NEGATION of Arbp. Pozzo’s POSITIVE PROOFS, but also must provide ADDITIONAL POSITIVE PROOFS that the neo-modernists propositions, as to the interpretation of the cited texts, are in fact the correct ones.
But whatever refutation the neo-modernists muster, to counter what Arbp. Pozzo has provided, the argument has now become ASYMMETRICAL, against the neo-modernist’s position and the burden of proof clearly now rests on them.
In other words, it would appear that the real “God of surprises” has struck again!
I will end here. The below is being re-published…
FOR THE RECORD
Abp. Pozzo on SSPX: Disputed Vatican II Documents Are Non-Doctrinal
In a recent interview published by the German weekly newspaper Die Zeit (32/2016), Italian Archbishop Guido Pozzo (64), Secretary of the Pontifical Commission Ecclesia Dei (PCED), made some important statements concerning his qualitatively progressing negotiations with the Society of Saint Pius X — negotiations which fall under the purview of the PCED. His comments make it clear that the process of formal inclusion of the SSPX is advancing, and that Pope Francis has offered a personal prelature to the SSPX – similar to the structure under which Opus Dei operates.
There is a section in the interview that is especially worth noting, inasmuch as it may facilitate proper doctrinal discourse among a wide range of conservative and traditional Catholics. In it, Archbishop Pozzo explains why it may be possible for the SSPX to be fully integrated into the structures of the Catholic Church without their previously accepting some of the documents of Vatican II, namely Nostra Aetate, about interreligious dialogue; the decree Unitatis Redintegratio, on ecumenism; the Declaration Dignitatis Humanae, on religious liberty; and, finally, other texts relating to the question of the relationship between Christianity and Modernity. While saying that “the Council is not a pastoral superdogma, but part of the completeness [sic]of tradition and the continuous Magisterium,” Pozzo makes clear that there are some texts of the Council that are not doctrinal and are thus not binding on the Catholic conscience. Pozzo stresses that “the Church’s tradition is developing, but never in the sense of a novelty – which stands in contrast to the previous teaching – but which is a deeper understanding of the Depositum fidei, the authentic deposit of the Faith.” Pozzo continues, by saying that
In this [same] sense, all [the] Church’s documents have to be understood, also those of the Council. These preconditions, together with the obligation to affirm the Creed, the recognition of the Sacraments and of the papal primacy are the basis for the magisterial declaration which the Fraternity has been given to sign. These are the preconditions for a Catholic, in order to be in full communion with the Catholic Church.
In discussing the question of the specific documents of Vatican II, Pozzo insists that certain documents are indeed binding upon Catholics for them to affirm and to accept, such as
the teaching on the sacramentality of the Episcopal office and its consecrations as the fullness of Holy Orders; or the teaching on the primacy of the pope and of the college of bishops in union with its head [sic], as presented in the Dogmatic Constitution Lumen gentium, and as interpreted by the Nota explicativa praevia which had been requested by the highest authority.
With regard to the earlier-mentioned documents above – Nostra Aetate about interreligious dialogue; the decree Unitatis Redintegratio on ecumenism; and the Declaration Dignitatis Humanae on religious liberty – Pozzo explicitly says:
They are not about doctrines or definitive statements, but, rather, about instructions and orienting guides for pastoral practice. On can [thus legitimately] continue to discuss these pastoral aspects after the [proposed] canonical approval [of the SSPX], in order to lead us to further [and acceptable] clarifications.
When asked by the journalist as to whether the Vatican has now come to the idea that the varied Council documents have different dogmatic weights, Pozzo very importantly states:
This is certainly not a [later] conclusion on our part, but it was already clear at the time of the Council. The General Secretary of the Council, Cardinal Pericle Felici, declared on 16 November 1964: “This holy synod defines only that as being binding for the Church what it declares explicitly to be such with regard to Faith and Morals.” Only those texts assessed by the Council Fathers as being binding are to be accepted as such. That has not been [later] invented by “the Vatican,” but it is written in the official files themselves.
In response to a possible critique that important Council declarations such as Nostra Aetate could thus be more fully and openly denied, Pozzo declares:
The secretary for the Unity of Christians said on 18 November 1964 in the Council Hall about Nostra Aetate: “As to the character of the declaration, the secretariat does not want to write a dogmatic declaration on non-Christian religions, but, rather, practical and pastoral norms.” Nostrae Aetate does not have any dogmatic authority, and thus one cannot demand from anyone to recognize this declaration as being dogmatic. This declaration can only be understood in the light of tradition and of the continuous Magisterium. For example, there exists today, unfortunately, the view – contrary to the Catholic Faith – that there is a salvific path independent of Christ and His Church. That has also been officially confirmed last of all by the Congregation for the Faith itself in its declaration, Dominus Jesus. Therefore, any interpretation of Nostrae Aetate which goes into this [unfortunate and erroneous] direction is fully unfounded and has to be rejected. [my emphasis added]
Pozzo concludes that the ongoing SSPX discussions should always now be about “a hermeneutic of the documents on the background of the continuous tradition.” He adds: “Tradition certainly is not a lifeless fossil, but it certainly also does not mean an adaptation to any kind of contemporary culture.”
Pozzo even shows his understanding and sympathy for the Society of Saint Pius X when he politely concludes his interview with these words:
In such a difficult moment of confusion and lack of orientation as we have it today, it is the task of those who want to remain loyal to the tradition of the Church to promote the re-strenghtening of the Christian faith and of the mission. I hope that the Priestly Fraternity of Saint Pius X – when fully integrated – will also thus be able to make its contribution to this missionary apostolate and to the strengthening of the Catholic Faith in our society and in our world.
Andrew said:
The calculus Bp Fellay must be going through to move forward on this is obviously profoundly daunting; on the one hand if they were to sign on for a personal prelature under what appears to be the current offer (V2 is non-binding – which by the way seems to be fairly self-evident because no “anathemas” were offered, for the first time in Church history as far as I know) they gain the recognition and standing they deserve. The official admission that V2 was – as the Council Fathers proclaimed – “pastoral”, i.e., “we’re just letting in a little fresh air here” – would be huge, HUGE!! On the other hand, they could run the risk of suppression like the FFI.
But what would an official suppression look like – some squirrelly mod priest from Rome showing up in Econe (or wherever Bp Fellay resides) with papers saying he’s in charge?? He’d be laughed out of there. The response could then be, well Rome withdraws its recognition, and officially anathematizes the SSPX and they continue on living their lives and doing the great good for the Church they’ve always done under the state of necessity – – – which PF proves the reality of more and more with each passing day – – – but with the official admission that V2 is non-binding still standing. How does it play out at the parish level? A Bishop in the Diocese of Backwater follows a general suppression from Rome by chaining the doors of the nearby SSPX chapel shut? That wouldn’t last five minutes either because SSPXers are Catholic Honey Badgers!
Would you see an attempt at suppression playing out differently?
Again, pardon the questions and speculations, and all the space I;m taking up in the combox but this is fascinating stuff! Thanks for keeping all of this going Sarmaticus!! I truly enjoy your writing.
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S. Armaticus said:
HI:
As to short term moves on the side of the SSPX, the following video is telling.
It was posted 2 days after I posted Desperately Seeking Reconciliation. It confirms that the only way forward is with a unilateral recognition by Francis. The reason is the total chaos in the Vatican itself for starters. I don’t think Francis will sign on to anything that puts the above defined position on paper. And Bp. Fellay will not accept any other signature on that paper.
On a digression, I personally think that Francis is playing Arch. Pozzo against Card. Muller. Arbp Pozzo had to have Francis’ permission to give that interview after Card. Mullers clearly stated position only a couple of weeks earlier. Hagan lio, or whatever…
Back to the SSPX. Fr. Stehlin, in the video gives a good idea what the SSPX upper echolon thinks. Fr. Stehlin, who I have met on several occasions (he used to be head of Eastern Europe and I attended the Warsaw chapel on some trips to the old country) is a serious guy. So we can say that the upper mgt of the SSPX shares his sentiment. They know Francis doesn’t like them, and is only interested in the publicity and control. So they aren’t playing along.
Therefore, going down this line, Francis unilaterally recognizes the SSPX. Francis gives them a personal prelature not because he wants to. He has to. The reason being, since they will not agree to any control from local ordinaries. So Francis is already showing how weak his hand is. But being the media pig, no price is too high. The Opus Dei are pissed from what I understand, b/t/w.
But that’s the beginning of Francis’ troubles. As per Fr. Stehlin, the SSPX will not agree to tone down their commentary on VII. And Arbp. Pozzo is giving them the ammo. So then if Francis complains, the SSPX will let him know that it was he who invited them to the party.
So unilateral recognition, nothing on paper. No control from VII. SSPX keep title to tangible assets. GIves up some collection receipts into the VII kitty. In return they get “street cred”.
Where it can go wrong is if the diocese start giving them parishes. If the SSPX are invited in, but not given control over the property, then the problems can start. They can get hooked. But that is a long way off.
And as you point out, fresh air indeed.
This move could be a massive psychological boost to the Restoration in the dioceses. If Francis brings the SSPX in on their terms, what is there to stop the parish priests to start criticizing VII. More Hagan lio. It will also give a boost to the religious orders. Could allow some of them to move into SSPX orbit. This is why Francis is trying to corral this all into the Ecclesia Dei.
So all in all, I can’t see any upside for Francis (aside from some cheap publicity) in this one. I see only upside for SSPX in above scenario.
Which means it is not going to happen soon.
As to the comment box, please feel free to write as you wish. Comments from reader tend to keep me on my toes.
PS What we should be on the lookout for is other Ratzingerians to join Arbp Pozzo in his position w/r/t VII.
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Unanimous Consent said:
This is entirely ironic, as if any of this is NEW information. The SSPX has been consistent since the 70’s on the applicability of the Nota Praevia. It is as if Rome simply just discovered this.
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S. Armaticus said:
It’s called feigning ignorance.
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