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Today I re-post an interview given by His Excellency Athanasius Schneider, Auxiliary Bishop of the Archdiocese of Saint Mary in Astana, that appeared on the website of the US District of the Society of St. Pius X. I would also like my readers to take a moment after reading each passage that contains a quote from the good Bishop and think about what he said.
To be more specific, two issues. First think about the position that the good Bishop is taking and how it relates to what can be considered the typical post-conciliar church response. And second, think about what kind of repercussions would have befallen the Bishop if he had taken those same position during the reign of say… John Paul “the great”.
And lastly one more observation. I have been “taking the pulse” of this “regularization” discussion on the other Catholic blogs. What strikes me is that the main proponents of the SSPX NOT ACCEPTING Modernist Rome’s offer comes from individuals who would have never (until recently I assume) even considered attending a SSPX chapel, let alone receiving Sacraments from a SSPX priest.
Now please don’t misunderstand my position. I am not judging criticizing these folks. I would like to pay them a complement, in that they now realize how important the work of the Great Archbishop Lefebvre and his successors is, and how important it is to the Universal Church. And not to mention this too forcefully, but it just might be that the importance of the work of the SSPX is due to the fact that it might just impact the ability to survive, for their favored communities.
Yes Virginia, without the SSPX, there would be no Restoration in the post-conciliar church at large. And if the SSPX accepts, Francis might just want to suppress the entire Restoration like he snuffed out the FFI and the “Sovereign” Military Order of Malta. And it also might just be that the Restoration is predicated on the SSPX and nothing more.
But yet, we know that God writes straight with crooked lines…
See original HERE.
*****
Bishop Schneider on SSPX – Vatican Relations
The bishop, a familiar face to traditional Catholics from among the world’s diocesan bishops, was interviewed on topics related to Rome and the SSPX. Our analysis and comments follow.
On February 16th, the traditional Catholic blog Rorate Coeli, in conjunction with its sister website Adelante la Fe, released this interview with His Excellency Athanasius Schneider, Auxiliary Bishop of the Archdiocese of Saint Mary in Astana. Conducted by Adelante’s Mauricio Ponce, the interview dives into several topics of importance in the Catholic Church today, but begins with an in-depth discussion of any possible agreement between the Society of St. Pius X and Rome in the future.
We are grateful to Bishop Schneider for pleading in favor of the SSPX and defending with clarity so many points of the faith and the morals of the Church. We appreciate in particular his statements on Luther, giving communion to the divorced-and-remarried, and the duty of resisting error, even when it emanates from the Supreme Pontiff.
Mirroring the Society, the Bishop points out reasons to have optimism, as well as reasons for concern for the structure of an agreement. We provide our analysis and our response to his points in the commentary below.
Regularization
About the regularization of the SSPX, Bishop Schneider starts by saying that one should not talk about an “agreement” which supposes differences about the Faith, but only of a canonical recognition from the Holy See because “in this case, there is no differences in the Catholic Faith.”
Bishop Schneider knows the Society well from having visited two of its seminaries in the past. We are honored by his strong testimony about the Society who “bears very evident, visible and spiritual fruit in edifying the Catholic Faith, in transmitting the integrity of Catholic Faith and liturgy and Christian life, as it was practiced during several centuries[.]”
Recognition of the Holy See
…which is, for every Catholic community, a requirement, an indispensable one to be Catholic, to have also a canonical, a visible connection to the Chair of Peter, to the Vicar of Christ. This is a basic requirement for every Catholic work in the Church.”
Bishop Schneider argues that a “canonical connection” with the See of St. Peter is a requirement for being Catholic and that a canonical mission is required to have an apostolate. If he means legitimate submission to the Holy Father, we agree! The Society has never refused any legitimate submission to the Pope, nor have they severed the bonds of the liturgy and the profession of the Faith. If the canonical situation became irregular, — and the canonical mission is missing today — it was not the fault of the SSPX but because, as Bishop Schneider himself argues, Rome unjustly deprived the SSPX of it. Archbishop Lefebvre always claimed that the canonical sanctions were invalid because unjust; he was refused an appeal. Bishop Schneider considers (see below) the case in a hypothetical future where the SSPX — then canonically regularized — might have to return to canonical irregularity if pressured by Rome to abandon an essential point of what it stands for. It is then possible to be Catholic despite an apparent rupture of canonical norms! The Society has always relied on the supplied jurisdiction the Church provides in such emergency situations so that the faithful are not deprived of the grace of the sacraments.
A Matter of Justice?
The SSPX had initially the recognition of the Church as Archbishop Lefebvre founded them in 1970 but unfortunately, this recognition was taken away in 1975. Archbishop Lefebvre made an appeal against this suppression -to my opinion unjust- and his appeal was rejected.
For the Holy See to grant them now again the canonical recognition, it would be in some way the acceptance of the appeal that Archbishop Lefebvre made in 1975.”
Bishop Schneider states that canonical recognition would be a way for the Holy See to finally take account of Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre’s appeal against the unjust suppression of the SSPX in 1975. This is a very elegant way to present the solution. And it is true. However Bishop Schneider does not ignore that the reason for this unjust suppression and persecution of the Society since then (and of traditional Catholicism as a whole) has its precise origins in disagreements on the Faith, “because of this deep crisis of Faith inside the Church,” as he puts it, and its most sacred expression: the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass.
That is the reason why Bishop Bernard Fellay, Superior General of the SSPX, following Archbishop Lefebvre, demands the SSPX to be recognized “as we are.” He also maintains that we must be able to continue our public rejection of, and fight against, the errors which poisoned the Church, including her liturgy, for more than 50 years.
As Bishop Fellay said during his last interview at Radio Courtoisie:
The problem is, once again, this battle of ideas. Is a Church that for 40 years has imposed a way of thinking, this modernist way of thinking against which we fight, against which, or because of which we were even declared schismatic and everything else, outside of the Church; is this Church ready, yes or no, to let us continue on our path?”
Approval of Diocesan Bishops
It is a general law of the Church, …a common practice of the church.
… It is not -to my opinion- a problematic issue…”
One issue addressed by Bishop Schneider concerns the status of Society chapels should regularization be granted. As he notes, the traditional practice of the Church is that the local bishop must approve in advance all places of worship within his canonical jurisdiction. This is a cause of concern insofar as many bishops remain opposed to the SSPX and Tradition. However, Bishop Schneider maintains that, based on his understanding, if the Society were offered a Personal Prelature, its current chapels could remain without approval from the local ordinary. Permission would only need to be sought for future establishments. In Bishop Schneider’s opinion, this is not problematic insofar as the SSPX already has more work than it can currently handle and that there are already plenty of bishops in the world who would gladly accept the Society into their respective dioceses.
Bishop Fellay, commenting on the possibility of Personal Prelature, said on January 26: “The problem is not a canonical structure which would not be acceptable.” On the contrary, even though “there are details that need improving…[and] matters that still need to be discussed,” the Personal Prelature “is adequate and suits our needs.” Further, while we agree with Bishop Schneider that the Church cannot be approached as a mere human institution, but rather must be seen as a supernatural entity, Bishop Fellay continues to insist that the Society be given guarantees that it will not be required to profess the errors of the Second Vatican Council and, indeed, still have the freedom to fight them. Here are his words:
We have told Rome, very clearly, that, just as Archbishop Lefebvre used to say in his day, we have a sine qua non condition: if this condition is not met, then we will not move. And this condition is for us to be able to remain as we are, to keep all the principles that have kept us alive, that have kept us Catholic.”
What Does the Holy Father Want?
Another point of concern are the intentions of Pope Francis. Given the Pope’s intervention into the affairs of the Franciscans of the Immaculate (an order that often celebrated the Tridentine Mass), why would he be so eager to extend a hand of friendship to the SSPX? On this point Bishop Schneider cautions against prejudging the intentions of the Holy Father while also conceding that “the [present] circumstances” in the Church “can induce us to presume that [the Pope’s] intention would not be good.” And if the Holy See were to pressure the Society to change or be abolished, here is what Bishop Schneider has to say.
It would be on them [the priests] to resist and to preserve their identity….[I]t is a hypothetical case: we cannot preview the future…, [but] in this very extreme situation when in some future or years after the erection of the Prelature, the Holy See would ask to change something against their identity. They [would] have to resist [and say:] ‘This is unjust, it goes against our intention when we accept the Prelature, it would destroy our charism.’…Then they [would] have to say…with all respect to the Holy See, ‘You can take away the Prelature, we do not need it; the most important is to preserve our identity for the benefit of the Church, not of us but of the Church.’ This is a hypothetical case they have to renounce the Prelature and continue as they are. Therefore they have nothing to lose. It is upon them to preserve their identity.”
It would seem that Bishop Schneider agrees that what the SSPX has done for more than 40 years, namely, preserve Catholic Tradition against unjust accusations and actions from the Holy See, is legitimate. And, just as importantly, he appears to recognize that Archbishop Lefebvre’s fight against the suppression of the SSPX was just.
Vatican II – A Pastoral CounciL
The [Second Vatican] Council was stated by Popes John XXIII and Paul VI primarily and repeatedly a pastoral council, not a doctrinal nor dogmatic one. It was the intention of the Church not to give with the documents a definitive teaching. When there is not definitive teaching, there can be still some development on these issues or some corrections.”
As for the Second Vatican Council and the errors and ambiguities present in some of its texts, Bishop Schneider insists on the fact that Vatican II is only pastoral and that these points of controversy cannot be imposed; they remain open for discussion. He offers as an example the matter of the sacrament of the priesthood which was first presented by the Ecumenical Council of Florence, but was only infallibly defined by Pius XII contrary to the original thesis presented at Florence.
We rejoice to see Bishop Schneider insisting on this fundamental point of the “pastorality” of the Council as well as denouncing the excessive “papolatry” which has exacerbated the crisis for more than half a century. Nevertheless, one must also recognize that the propositions of this “pastoral” Council have been pushed on the faithful as dogmas. The objections of the Society against the Council are not about doctrines which had never been clarified by the Church, but rather about errors already clearly and infallibly condemned by the Magisterium of the Church [see: “A New Magisterium”]. So long as these errors continue to be promoted by the Church’s hierarchy and priests, the Society must continue to fight, regardless of its canonical status or structure.
Source: Rorate Coeli / Adelante la Fe
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AMDG said:
“As he notes, the traditional practice of the Church is that the local bishop must approve in advance all places of worship within his canonical jurisdiction. This is a cause of concern insofar as many bishops remain opposed to the SSPX and Tradition. However, Bishop Schneider maintains that, based on his understanding, if the Society were offered a Personal Prelature, its current chapels could remain without approval from the local ordinary. Permission would only need to be sought for future establishments.”
“Permission would only need to be sought for future establishments.”
Then it stands to reason that the Brotherhood’s capacity to expand would be significantly hindered and all the current “mission areas” that get Traditional Latin Mass once a week or once a month in rented alcove would be shut down. For Superior General Bp. Fellay to thus sacrifice his officers fighting the good fight out there in the provinces of this world for a residence in Rome would and truly give Bp. Williamson the status of a desert prophet.
Why rub elbows with the modernists when you can call them out for what they are, heretics and traitors. Unless the Faith return to Rome, unless the swamp is drained first, this deal could result in a Kiss of death for the Brotherhood.
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AMDG said:
“In Bishop Schneider’s opinion, this is not problematic insofar as the SSPX already has more work than it can currently handle”
That opinion is disputable. The priest are spread geographically but the number of souls they minister are few. If a priest of some nationality enters the Brotherhood he is sent to tend his folk due to language requirements. He may travel often, but the number of people he ministers may not even exceed a hundred. The Brotherhood can and SHOULD handle it because Providence chose them.
“and that there are already plenty of bishops in the world who would gladly accept the Society into their respective dioceses.”
Mere wishful conjecture. The Brotherhood is present and most needed in those place where Summorum Pontificum was ignored, rejected and opposed. Many Latin Masses would get shut down as Bishops are hostile towards Tradition. Furthermore, the TLM and Novus Ordo cannot coexist, it’s like oil and water, we can’t pay ‘lip service’ to heresy to get TLM. The Novus Ordo warps peoples minds.
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Petrus Romanus said:
“Then it stands to reason that the Brotherhood’s capacity to expand would be significantly hindered.” You are correct. By not allowing Tradition/the SSPX to go where the Spirit delivers it to, and by giving the local Bishop power to stop it in its tracks, the Society is making a huge mistake. Bishop Schneider might mean well, but his head is not on straight when he says “there are already plenty of bishops in the world who would gladly accept the Society into their respective dioceses.” I can think of maybe a dozen or so in the world that might but beyond that, none. “The Brotherhood can and SHOULD handle it because Providence chose them.” Correct. Grace and the Holy Spirit have delivered those who currently attend Society chapels. They are all, generally speaking, in the same boat for the same reason. There is only so much room in a lifeboat. Recall God said a small remnant would be chosen. He didn’t say “a small remnant would be preserved for twenty years that would then rebuild the Church.” The crisis in the Church must get much worse before God restores it. That is a matter of justice. Moreover, all Marian apparitions and the saints and say the Church would be eclipsed, as it if had been destroyed, but then a sudden conversion would take place by a Pope whom God had chosen. There is nothing in prophesy or scripture that speaks about a little by little change of heart by the wicked.
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S. Armaticus said:
Petrus Romanus, AMDG:
With all due respect, have you not been watching what is taking place in the Universal Church?
A few months ago, I did a post titled Summorum Pontificum’s ABUNDANT “Good Fruit”. In this post I picked at random a 40 day period ( May/June 2016) and just listed the articles and post that were picked up by my filters with a Tradition subject matter.
I highly suggest you go to the link and take a look.
The reason that I am bringing this to your attention is that I don’t think we can say:
IF “Moreover, all Marian apparitions and the saints and say the Church would be eclipsed, as it if had been destroyed, but then a sudden conversion would take place by a Pope whom God had chosen. There is nothing in prophesy or scripture that speaks about a little by little change of heart by the wicked.”,
THEN we sit around and wait for it to happen.
We still are subject to the Great Commission and we still need to perform spiritual Acts of Mercy in order to work out our salvation in fear and trembling.
And it is those who have lost the Faith that are the most vulnerable and in need of our Charity.
Parting thought, if rumors are correct, the next conclave will be about vocations. And we know who has vocation:
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Petrus Romanus said:
I am not saying at all to “sit around and wait for it to happen.” That does not follow from what I have said and you are making a jump to a conclusion that does not follow the argument presented. Do you think Bp. Williamson, “the Resistance,” etc. are just sitting on their rumps? I think too many people look at this issue from a naturalistic viewpoint. They look around at what they can see, and touch and smell and say “ah, look. Tradition is growing.” But we must think supernaturally, in the spiritual realm. The graces Abp. Lefebvre won for his Society with the consecrations were immense. So much so that the Society stayed strong for all this time, 20+ yrs. But no longer. The Society wants to – like those in the Book of Judith – say to God “unless you don’t fix the Church in our lifetime, then we will do it ourselves!” Look, don’t forget that the apostles rejoiced at being maligned for following Christ. Does the Society? Arguably not. They don’t want to be seen as “schismatic.” They want to unburden themselves of that cross, that mark, in these times. My own feeling is that the Society wins graces by always being mischaracterized and through that converts souls to the Truth. They are the engine that keeps the Church running, so to speak. Obviously I do not wish it to continue, but take for instance Carmelite Nuns. They do more for the world than probably many Cardinals and Bishops. Again, no one is saying ignore the Great Commission. But it is illogical and foolish to think one must “regularize” with a Church that Our Lady said would be infiltrated by Satan and Freemasonry. Indeed Scripture says “run for the hills.” Now, again, that doesn’t mean hide in a bunker. But it does seem to mean we should not have cozy relations with those infected with modernism, progressivism, etc. One last thought. Do you, S. Armaticus, believe there are differences between Lefebvre and the likes of Fr. Z, the Archbold brothers, Rorate Caeli, etc? It is night and day! Most “Trads” just like the mass and think some things at Vatican II were bad but still believe in the hermeneutic of continuity. They don’t, like Lefebvre always said, believe Judeo-Masonry is running things and that the Council was a complete break with the past. These persons do not have the faith of the Archbishop. Yet Society faithful do! That matters, does it not? If you are worried for souls in the Conciliar Church, then pray! Reach out! I have, and do all the time. I try to bring souls to Society chapels as often as I can. If they refuse, then God will guide them and I will pray and sacrifice for them. But as Scripture says “kick the dust off your feet” if they do not listen. the Society must go where people have ears to hear. If the Church and the Pope will not hear them and change their ways then the Society must, like a good missionary, go elsewhere. God said the remnant would be selected by grace, and not by PR stunts.
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Halina said:
Dear Akita,
I have just put in the oven my grandmother’s favorite apple cake with cranberries, raisins and currants. It is an old recipe from Poland. Wish you were my neighbour, would love to have you for cup of coffee, and piece of apple cake. But perhaps some other time, and in another place (our home).
Will keep all in my prayers.
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S. Armaticus said:
Like they say in the old country, you ladies (Halina and Akita) are “thebestciaczki”!
Will keep both of you in our prayers here likewise.
S.A.
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Akita said:
Smaczne!
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Akita said:
Oops. That is meant to describe Halina’s babczia’s cake!
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Halina said:
Dear Armaticus,
Be prepared, that once SSPX is in the full swing of the so-called ‘regularization’, the same ‘polite trads’, will persecute you (us)…..this is part of the ‘diabolical disorientation’…….2017 A.D. (just read the comments on some of the so-called trad’s blogs…..so sad).
Put on your ‘combat boots’, because the enemy is being inflamed like a ‘fire ball’, and they are legions of every stripe.
This is the time to pray for holy perseverance, holy hope, and for courage….. fearless faith!
Please know, that you, and yours will be in my prayers, doing my holy pilgrimage to the Holy Land.
Rejoice, for if God is with us……fear not those, that are against us! Keep the Faith!!!
“O Glorious St. Joseph, chosen by God to be the reputed father of Jesus,
the most pure spouse of Mary ever virgin, and the head of the Holy family,
and then elected by the Vicar of Christ to be the heavenly patron and
protector of the Church founded by Jesus Christ; with the greatest
confidence I implore at this time thy powerful aid for the entire Church militant.
Protect in a special manner with thy truly paternal love the Supreme Pontiff
and priests united to the See of St. Peter. Defend all those who labor for souls
in the midst of the afflictions and tribulations of this life, and obtain the willing
submission of every nation throughout the world to the Church, the necessary
means of salvation for all……..Amen.”
Jesu Maria Joseph pray for all Catholics, lest many will perish!
Vivat Christus Rex!
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Akita said:
Thank you, Halina. I will pray this prayer each day of Lent. Have a safe trip.
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